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Web Questions for the inclusive God (Hugh Rayment-Pickard)
What inspired you to write this book?
The thing that impresses me about Jesus is his teaching about the importance
of forgiveness and love, how he mixed with outcasts and made the unclean and
unloved feel valuable. The bible doesn't call this 'inclusion' but that's what
it is. Steve and I wanted to write a book that would remind the Churches that
being 'inclusive' is not a modern secular fad, but basic Christian teaching.
Do you think that by publishing this book now it will have greater
significance?
Yes, inclusion is a massive issue for the Churches at this juncture in
history. The disagreements about inclusion are threatening schism on a scale
that has not been seen since the Reformation. History will view the issue of
inclusion as the major world theological question of the late 20th / early 21st
centuries.
Do you think the goals of the inclusive church movement can be realised in
the near future?
That depends which goals you mean. But homosexual clergy (to take only one
inclusion issue) will I believe be accepted without question in mainstream
Church of England life by 2030. The grain of historical progress is on the side
of increasing liberalism and social acceptance. No one in this country now would
suggest withdrawing the vote for women, reintroducing slavery or
re-criminalising homosexuality. We would regard this as barbaric. It won't be
long before the exclusion of lesbians and gay men from the leadership of the
Churches is regarded in the same light.
What do you hope people will get out of reading The Inclusive God?
I hope that this book will spark a different and more theological dimension
to the debate about inclusion. Voices on both sides have concentrated on
specific issues of Church membership, such as allowing women bishops. These
issues are important, but the point that Steve and I have been making is that
'inclusion' isn't just about issues, it's about theological truth. So we've
tried to argue why inclusion is basic to Christian theology.
Do you think that the Inclusive Church movement needs to address society
as well as the church?
I guess so, but I'd like to see the Church change its attitudes ahead of the
secular world and start to act as a prophetic and socially-transformative
organisation. Normally the Church limps behind enlightened secular reform, only
changing when others in society have fought the really difficult battles. This
is particularly true of the recognition of the true value of women, which
started to happen in secular organisations before the Church dared to make any
reforms of its own.
What do you think of the arguments that are presented to women who want to
become part of the clergy? eg its tradition to have male leaders
Most arguments to exclude others from the Church or its power
structures stem from fear and insecurity. We need to make people feel that an
inclusive church is a much better, more truthful and healthier place to live.
Do you feel the Church has moved too far away from the early Christian
ideals preached by Jesus and his disciples?
The Church has always struggled to live up to the ideals of Jesus and our age
is no different from others in that respect. But I do worry that people in the
Church are failing to see just how central inclusive theology is to authentic
Christian identity. People speak of 'inclusion' as a fringe issue that is
'getting in the way' of the Church's work, as though the Church's mission had
nothing to do with accepting those who are rejected, demonised and unloved. As
our book argues, inclusion is at the centre of Jesus theology of the Kingdom.
Web Questions for the inclusive God (Steven Shakespeare)
What inspired you to write this book?
We write out of a passion for the genuinely inclusive heart of Christian
theology and mission. We wanted to show that inclusion was not just an issue for
an erudite liberal elite. It names a vibrant, gutsy, flesh and blood truth,
which can and should make a difference to the real world.
Do you think that by publishing this book now it will have greater
significance?
Yes, this is a very hot issue right now. For example, Archbishop Rowan
Williams recently gave an interview to the Dutch press. The headline was 'The
Church is not Inclusive'. I think that is a symptom of the churches' current
insecurity in facing change - we're worried that we're opening the floodgates to
something strange and frightening. I think that's sad, and misses the huge
opportunity we now have to demonstrate the boundary-busting love that Jesus
embodies. Hugh and I are inviting people to see this not as a threat, but as an
opportunity to grow.
Do you think the goals of the inclusive church movement can be realised in
the near future?
Some of those goals are already being realised. No-one can seriously stand up
for racial bigotry in the churches any longer. The exclusion of women from
positions of leadership is being challenged as never before. The movement away
from such exclusive systems of abusive power is gathering momentum. As far as
timetables and specific decisions go, there are no guarantees. But once the
spirit of liberation has been released, it can't ever be locked up again.
Homophobia cannot be left as the last acceptable prejudice.
What do you hope people will get out of reading the inclusive god?
I hope they will feel excited, challenged, and connected to a
compelling theological vision of Christianity. We write about the big themes of
Christian faith, because we want people to see how inclusion is rooted in the
nature of God and all that God creates. Too often appeals to authority are made
as an excuse to stop thinking and refuse change. We want people to wrestle with
the living, dynamic nature of the Bible and the church's tradition. The
liberating pulse of the gospel shouldn't be trapped by our definitions.
Do you think that the inclusive Church movement needs to address society
as well as the church? Yes, I think it needs that outward-facing stance. We
can't talk about inclusion whilst ignoring the way that much of the world is
devastated by economic imperialism; or how so many women's bodies are still
subjected to arbitrary control and abuse; or the ways people are finding to live
in creative harmony with the earth. But the inclusive church has to engage with
these issues on the basis of a liberating vision of the world birthed and healed
by the vulnerable humanity of God. We can't preach morality to the world while
our own structures are distorted by unjust power-mongering.
What do you think of the arguments that are presented to women who want to
become part of the clergy?eg its tradition to have male leaders
I would say that men and women are made equal in God's image. In
Christ, the made-up hierarchies we love to build are swept away. Women and men
alike make up the body of Christ and can reveal the human face of God to others.
So the only justification for an all-male priesthood is that men are 'naturally'
holier and more like God than women. When all the clever arguments have come and
gone, that's the real issue. And I think that's an outrageous example of where a
cultural, human prejudice has been substituted for the living truth of
revelation.
Do you feel the Church has moved too far away from the early Christian
ideals preached by Jesus and his disciples?
No church is perfect: Jesus' own disciples messed things up pretty badly! So
I don't think we should aim to restore a mythical golden age. The point is to
re-discover the cutting edge of the gospel for our own day. Time and again,
despite all the temptations of an institution like the church to mistake power
for God, the Spirit has guided Christians into new expressions of faithfulness
and love. I believe that's what is happening today. Our specific context and
questions will be different from what has gone before. But we're learning again
what it means to believe in an inclusive God.